MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

[Alastair]

In an outspoken attack, elder statesmen Hugh Henry, Duncan McNeil and Michael McMahon accused SNP chiefs of using their in-built majorities on cross-party committees to close down scrutiny of the Government.

They spoke out after The Herald learned that demands for a detailed investigation into SNP benefits plans were this week secretly voted down by Nationalist MSPs on the welfare reform committee.

See http://www.heraldscotland.com/politi...rpose.18943922 for the full article.

The reason I added this article is that for a while now I have been concerned that the SNP are not transparent in their operations. Everyone seems to toe the party line and will simply not discuss anything that might in any way be contentious.

Like we used to get a weekly diary from Linda Fabiani but when she was appointed to the cabinet she could no longer do the diary. Then we had Christina McKelvie who was a list MSP but when she won her current seat and was appointed to chair the external relations committee we stopped getting in feedback. Now as she was external relations you'd have thought she'd be keen to keep using our site as we have a huge reach into the Scots Diaspora. However emails that used to get acknowledged were no longer being acknowledged.

In simple terms I no longer trust the SNP and I think more and more people are coming to that conclusion which will have a negative affect on the referendum for a YES vote. Indeed from what I have seen to date I would forecast a no vote to Independence.

Alastair

[Glesgalass]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

I've never trusted them Alastair. My father warned me about them many years ago.

Elda

[Alastair]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

Well the one things they have been consistent about Elda is that they want an Independent Scotland. However if they then run that Independent Scotland then I just feel we'll lose a lot of our democracy.

Alastair

[sandyc]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

In simple terms I no longer trust the SNP and I think more and more people are coming to that conclusion which will have a negative affect on the referendum for a YES vote. Indeed from what I have seen to date I would forecast a no vote to Independence.

Alastair

Never have and never will. Classic symptoms of "Power corrupts..."
Sandy

[Glesgalass]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

The problem is that the SNP simply refuse to tell us how an independent Scotland will be governed. I've been asking the question for years and have asked it before, I believe, via this web site and have never gotten a satisfactory answer. I think my Dad asked the same questions for years too and never received an explanation.

Elda

[morayloon]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

In an outspoken attack, elder statesmen Hugh Henry, Duncan McNeil and Michael McMahon accused SNP chiefs of using their in-built majorities on cross-party committees to close down scrutiny of the Government

I just don't believe it and coming from bitter Labour MSPs I wonder just how much credence there is to their claims. Labour still hasn't come to grips with the fact that since 2007 it is no longer the main Scottish party with 2011 merely rubbing salt in its wounds. The anti-SNP, anti-Independence Scottish media go along with anything that the Unionists say. I wasn't able to read the full article because I have used up my 5 free looks at the paper - I refuse to pay that Unionist rag to access it on-line. I assume, however that there was a rebuttal by the Nationalists, one you - deliberately? - omit.

Everyone seems to toe the party line and will simply not discuss anything that might in any way be contentious

NATO

Like we used to get a weekly diary from Linda Fabiani but when she was appointed to the cabinet she could no longer do the diary. Then we had Christina McKelvie who was a list MSP but when she won her current seat and was appointed to chair the external relations committee we stopped getting in feedback. Now as she was external relations you'd have thought she'd be keen to keep using our site as we have a huge reach into the Scots Diaspora. However emails that used to get acknowledged were no longer being acknowledged

Big deal, busy MSPs don't keep in touch, so what? I note however that she provides a diary for 'The Flag In The Wind', the on-line version of the 'Scots Independent'. Since I joined this forum I have not seen much activity: perhaps that is the reason why she stopped.
What evidence do you have of this huge reach? If it has, why are the threads not full of comments? Oh and to balance your Unionist reading why not bookmark Newsnet Scotland which provides a Nationalist perspective to the important stories affecting this country - apologies if you already do visit the site:smile:

In simple terms I no longer trust the SNP and I think more and more people are coming to that conclusion which will have a negative affect on the referendum for a YES vote. Indeed from what I have seen to date I would forecast a no vote to Independence

Yes. it will be an uphill struggle but with support remaining in the 30%s and polls showing No backing only in the 40%s, there is not that much of a swing needed.
Your attacks on the SNP make me wonder how committed you are to the cause. If not it, then who is going to lead the way in the campaign.

The problem is that the SNP simply refuse to tell us how an independent Scotland will be governed. I've been asking the question for years and have asked it before, I believe, via this web site and have never gotten a satisfactory answer. I think my Dad asked the same questions for years too and never received an explanation

On the other hand, can you Unionists tell us what life is going to be like in the future if we vote to stay in the union? Thought not! Why is the onus always put on the Nationalists to see into the future? Let us hear the No camp provide a positive argument for remaining. Other than the 'too wee', 'too poor' rubbish spouted, they have come up with no hard evidence that we will be better off as we are.

[Alastair]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

Well you might be interested to note that I created "The Flag in the Wind" and published it for many years and still host the site on my servers. I also publish it when Tricia goes on holiday. I would add that I have never been responsible for the content just the web publishing although I was very active when they were doing the Scottish Language when Peter, the then chairman of the Scots Independent Newspaper, and his wife would visit my home in Grangemouth to record the words and phrases.

I am a member of the SDA as I support Independence and prefer their policies to that of the SNP. I do also visit the Newsnet and Scottish Times web sites. I admit not often but as I've just started a ScotNews feed I am making a point of visiting them more regularly.

I have posted links to the videos of the speeches that were given at the March for Independence in another message in these forums.

We certainly welcome any comments on Independence but hopefully considered posts that don't inflame. In fact we are in the process of building the "Scotland's Future" Group of Forums which are intended to come more to life during October. The concept of these forums is to assume Scotland has voted for Independence and so these forums are to discuss how to develop polices to take the country forward. In here we prefer quality of posts instead of volume of posts. Independence is an emotive subject but if you want to build an Independent country then cooler and more consider posts need to be the norm when you are building policies to run the country for all its people.

Alastair

[morayloon]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

I am a member of the SDA as I support Independence and prefer their policies to that of the SNP

How do you think the SDA are going to get us Independence? The only reason we are where we are is because of the SNP.

Independence is an emotive subject but if you want to build an Independent country then cooler and more consider posts need to be the norm

Don't think much of your patronising tone:frown: You're allowed to give your anti-SNP view but I'm not allowed to say what I think? Doesn't sound very democratic to me.
Your reply did not answer my question about the Labour MSPs accusations and the SNPs response. I have now read the article and see that Christine Grahame did refute the allegations although I note it was just tagged on at the end. I find it interesting that you did not mention the Nationalist view - more than a bit to do with your own anti-SNP stance maybe?
You said

"However if they then run that Independent Scotland then I just feel we'll lose a lot of our democracy"

You really need to explain why you feel this to be the case.

I think more and more people are coming to that conclusion

If this were the case how do you explain the fact that support is still in the 40%s, according to opinion polls. The last Panelbase poll put backing at 47% - 2% up on the 2011 share of the vote.

Indeed from what I have seen to date I would forecast a no vote to Independence

It is rather obvious that, if the referendum were held now, the result would be No but there are still 2 years to campaign and the gap is not that big.

Returning to the Labour MSPs and your giving the trio credence by calling them 'elder statesmen'. Here's a link to the actual level of one of them - McMahon http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php...k-alex-salmond

[Alastair]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

The SDA while technically a political party have been a think tank on Independence for quite some time and their many papers have provided everyone with thoughtful insights into how an Independent country can be run. As part of their policy they support the SNP's work for Independence but have made it clear that after Independence they'd like to take the country in a different direction in a more center to right wing position.

The SDA also mailed out to the United Nations, European Union and individual countries how Scotland has a legal right to have a referendum on Independence and thus asking them to monitor the position of the UK government on their stance on this. The SNP are by no means the only people that want an Independent Scotland. Many prominent people have provided excellent reports and analysis on what it would mean for Scotland to be an Independent country and the SNP have used many of these papers to come up with appropriate policies.

Just one of their papers has laid out the facts about Scotland's boundaries which is an essential paper when it comes to negotiating our Independence as the current position is not tenable and the SDA have stated clearly why it isn't. I could go on but you really should read their papers to get a better idea of what they are doing. I also felt their papers on Scotland in the World and Scotland in Europe were excellent and they hope to produce a paper on Scotland in the UK later this year.

I note the discussion on NATO but why are the SNP going to court to prevent any information about whether they did or did not take legal advice on being a member of the EU? From my point of view it shouldn't matter if they took advice or not unless they ignored the advice and stated something that they knew was not true.

The SNP can make mistakes just like anyone else but it's how you deal with these mistakes that really matters.

And I have no problem at all for anyone supporting the SNP in here. The idea is to have a good discussion and to explore all sides of the arguments. What I post up is taken from the Press. You only have to note that whether Scotland goes Independent or not will make no difference to me personally.

And you are perfectly free to add links to contrary information that you see posted in here.

Alastair

[morayloon]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

As part of their policy they support the SNP's work for Independence but have made it clear that after Independence they'd like to take the country in a different direction in a more center to right wing position

Good to hear that it is an organisation which supports the aim of Independence and accepts the SNPs position in the campaign. I also find it refreshing to hear of an organisation ready to stand for election in an Independent Scotland taking a centre-right stance: it certainly proves the lie the Unionists perpetrate that Scotland will be a 1 party state (are we really supposed to accept that the other 3 main parties will not be contesting elections in Scotland post-Independence)
Because of the stated right wing stance I would never be tempted to vote for the SDA when (if?) it ever puts up candidates for election.

I note the groups paper on sovereignty and must take issue with the notion that the Vienna Convention does not apply to Scotland. By coming to such a conclusion it is out of step (I believe) with SNP thinking on this matter. The SDA seem to assume that Scotland will not be a successor state. Article 17 states "a newly independent State may, by a notification of succession, establish its status as a party to any multilateral treaty which at the date of the succession of States was in force in respect of the territory to which the succession of States relates". Article 22 states that notification has to be made in writing. So, what is preventing Scotland being seen as a successor?
Further Article 20 says "When a newly independent State establishes its status as a party or as a contracting State to a multilateral treaty by a notification of succession under article 17 or 18, it shall be considered as maintaining any reservation to that treaty which was applicable at the date of the succession of States in respect of the territory to which the succession of States relates" This means that Scotland would inherit the UKs euro and Schengen opt outs (if it wishes)
How can the UK exist without a major part of the country? It too would be regarded as a new state in the same position as Scotland. The splitting of Czechoslovakia is surely a precedent for two new successor states coming from one predecessor. Why is the SDA adopting the Unionist position on this?
Again using Unionist terminology the paper talks of separation. Scotland will not be separating. The Traty of Union will be dissolved returning the situation to that of pre 1707 i.e. two separate countries under one crown.

why are the SNP going to court to prevent any information about whether they did or did not take legal advice on being a member of the EU? From my point of view it shouldn't matter if they took advice or not unless they ignored the advice and stated something that they knew was not true

There is a convention that legal advice is exempted from the Freedom of Information law. The government has stated quite categorically that it will publish any advice it has next year. Given that, why did the Labour MSP go to court in the first place? Incidentally, Westminster has also refused to publish its advice!

[Alastair]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

Thanks for the information. I will say I don't see myself as being qualified to discuss various positions but as I do run the largest web site on the History of Scotland and the Scots at home and abroad I do see it as my role to try and document this process towards this referendum vote. That is why I created a Scottish Independence forum and am sponsoring the "Scotland's Future" group of forums which are intended to get underway during October. In there we already have a General Messages forum, a Diaspora forum and now the Monetary Policy forum. We have another 5 people lined up already to take out other forums in the list which you can see at http://www.electricscotland.com/future

The concept it to try and get knowledgeable people involved in this and here we would much rather have few high quality posts rather then volume of posts. So what we are after are "factual arguments" rather than emotional arguments.

Alastair

[morayloon]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

The concept it to try and get knowledgeable people involved in this and here we would much rather have few high quality posts rather then volume of posts. So what we are after are "factual arguments" rather than emotional arguments.

Alastair

Why do you consider my posts 'emotional' when I did not see criticism of comments like "I've never trusted them" or "we'll lose a lot of democracy" or "never have and never will" The middle one was from yourself. Interesting that the other 2 go along with your view, isn't it? Can I take it that posts are only 'emotional' if they don't agree with you?

[Alastair]

Re: MSPs claim committees no longer fit for purpose

I think you're taking this rather personally and really shouldn't be. I was talking in general after watching the comments on news articles at the Scotsman.

Alastair